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Post by Geary Launder on Mar 22, 2009 12:27:19 GMT -8
Mike,
I just thought you'd like to know that you will have another rookie Y/C driver at the 4/19 race. His name is Bill. He will be in a familiar looking kart and hopefully we can get him up to speed quickly.
Since I'm here and posting, I'd like to point out a few things that haven't been mentioned in the can vs. pipe debate. First is that when Jeff was running his can with the then "Sumo" class, I believe our weight was 400 lbs. With him running at 345 or 350 that is a substantial difference and would result in similar lap times. Now that the Y/C class is at 370, 20 pounds is not enough for the can to make up. I believe you are going to see a much wider gap in lap times. Thus, with this group still racing with the Y pipes and HPV 4, (and the cans would obviously have to start behind the other two classes since they will be so much slower) I think you will see instead of being lapped once per race, you will see them getting lapped twice or even possibly three times. Now, this can be viewed as a good thing since these can guys seemed concerned about wear and tear on their equipment. Losing 8 or 9 laps per race over the remaining 8 races will be like not having raced for one entire event.
Also, I don't think it was ever mentioned why SDKA reduced the weight in Formula Y so here it is; it was two-fold, one was to help reduce the stress put on the clutches when climbing the steep chicanes at Moran when running it in reverse and two was to try and make it a cross-over class so that those racing cans could add a little weight and have more people to race with.
Also, I don't know why someone would have so much trouble with wear on their clutch friction disks. I haven't bought new disks in over 3 years for my L&T's. I have had to put shims in one of them, but there is plenty of material left and it seemed to be working just fine when Nick was racing last. Having the correct stall speed and keeping the fluid fresh have proved to prevent premature failure.
As far as engine re-builds go, I have religiously shipped my engines off after 8 races. I get a top-end done at that time and the bottom gets done every 2 years. The only issue I ever had was with studs pulling. I suppose that I was to blame for that though, since I cleaned the carbon off the piston and head after every race. That's a lot of torque to be put on steel studs in aluminum threads.
So now that I've had my say, I hope that all you Yamaha racers can find a common ground and all race together. It would be great to see some numbers again in that class.
Geary
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Post by mikecampbell on Mar 22, 2009 12:43:00 GMT -8
Well David, I'm sure you know nobody else has committed to Formula YC yet. I'm going to stick with it and hope it builds up again. I just can't see going to the Superbox exhaust, the pipe was chosen as an alternative to the can for a couple of reasons in this class. I hope the other regulars are able to come back soon, I'm pretty sure they will stay with YC. I spoke earlier about a combined class, It was Superstock, not Supersportsman. Kirk, Robert, speak up. Jim, where's your guy? David, is the rear tire option ( 6.0 - 7.0 ) in Superbox?
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Post by mikecampbell on Mar 22, 2009 13:01:17 GMT -8
Thanks Geary, you got in before my post. You know Formula YC as well as anyone thats still around and I appreciate your input. I'm happy to know there's someone else coming into the class!!!
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Post by kirk on Mar 23, 2009 6:36:39 GMT -8
Mike, I have to agree with Geary. I see no big advantage of the superbox as far as low maintenance, I ran it with the club at El Cajon for a couple of years. It might have lasted most of the season on a fresh motor but I had to rebuild the top end near the end of the season, about the same I am doing now with Formula Y/C Heavy. Clutches have always been my trouble. I voted with Geary to reduce kart weight because we were going to race Moran in reverse and would have to race up a steep hill. It really did help shedding that weight. Now I hardly work on the clutch, just change the oil and clean it up between races, the same as I did in superbox. My tires last longer now too, with the reduced weight. So it seems to me that we already came up with a "budget class". We eliminated minimum driver wieght to invite everyone to join us and there are plenty of cheap parts available, the motor is cheap compared to Tag or Shifters and in my opinion easier to tune compared to super box. The can did not let the motor breath as well as the pipe so I had to fool with the carburetor to get the motor started and make another adjustment at the start of the race, a lot to think about for a beginner. So I am with you Mike, I am sticking to Formula Y/C heavy. Why buy a new can to replace a pipe I already have to achieve about the same thing, keeping costs down, only to go slower. We will have fun keeping up with those HPV guys and lapping those superbox guys.
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Post by David Chong on Mar 23, 2009 7:21:25 GMT -8
This is good stuff! I hope you guys back up your posts of support by actually coming to the track and racing. That would be good for the club and good for the class.
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Post by Jim Abbott on Mar 24, 2009 11:14:51 GMT -8
Mike, If I remember right the superbox class that was ran at El Cajon or amago wasn't that big of class, that was when we had 10-13 drivers in the sumo class. If I had my say in this all I would say ditch the superbox class and make them run the formula y/c class. I can remember the day at Amago practicing the the superbox and the speed difference was really big, so for those drivers wanting to switch from the formula y/c to superbox you will be very disappointed not only for the fact that you spent money to run the superbox class and hate it due to the speed factor but that your going to switch back to the formula y class.
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Post by David Chong on Mar 24, 2009 13:51:12 GMT -8
Doom! The sky is falling! We already ran with the lighter weight using a 4 hole can side by side with a Y pipe at spec weight. The 4 hole can was slower, but it was not the big disgusting let-down you make it out to be, Jim. And quite frankly, if the top speeds are noticeably lower at Qualcomm as we anticipate they will be, then those same drivers who are switching over will be very, very pleased. That is the exact opposite of the gloomy picture you paint, Jim. You see, right now we have one KT100 driver with equipment and experience that puts him significantly ahead of the pack, two drivers (Kenny and I) that had one of the best if not the best battles of the day last race, for 7 laps battling on each other's bumpers, and two drivers who finished laps down. By lowering the top speed to something a bit more manageable for those last two drivers, we will very quickly have a class featuring four karts (actually, 5 or 6 beginning next race) that will likely have that same, close racing. To us, we are very happy with that trade. You may not have the same preference for competition over top speed, but Jim frankly your preference is irrelevant since you're not even running with us this year. I direct you once again to an earlier post where I quite specifically stated: we are going to run the 4-hole Superbox, and if you have input on any specifics regarding that class, you are welcome to post. It should be obvious by now that posting opinions about why we shouldn't change are like standing on a platform screaming at a train that has left the station. Both activities are silly. If I had my say in this all I would say ditch the superbox class and make them run the formula y/c class. Comments about what you want to "make" us do are a bit petty, especially coming from people who aren't even racing in any class so far this year, let alone one of the KT100 classes. In other words: come on guys, lighten up. Or better yet, vote with your feet, get out on track, and fill up the Formula Y/C class! If nothing else then do it just to spite me for changing to a different class! ;D Incidentally, all of the competitive Formula Y karts never got lapped in the main last race, Geary, so I doubt we'll be seeing the multiple laps down you predicted. If Superbox continues to grow at the current rate, the issue may even be moot at some point as it would earn its own, seperate race.
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Post by mikecampbell on Mar 24, 2009 18:59:54 GMT -8
What have I done? OK, yes I was not happy about a small class getting split up. Superbox is not anything new. These guys have the right to choose that class if they want to. It looks like YC will continue and having both classes is a good thing. My personal thoughts of the exhaust and it being a cheaper class are why I decided not to also change classes. David, my equipment isn't as new as you may think. My experience does come from many years of wrenching on the thing with help from the people I chose to put my trust in, along with the friendly help and advise from all others that were willing to give. They helped me help Tim more than you could possibly know. I now have a whole 13 more races as a driver more than you guys and I still owe any success to those that helped over the years. But hey, it's my butt in the seat now! I was hoping you would still be there last race after I got back from earning some club hours to tell you guys just how well you had done. I remember being told "you're there" after my first try. I couldn't see it, but coming from respected competitors it made me feel good. That's what I wanted to say to you and it wouldn't have been long before you were, at least, contending for a win in YC. You guys will do well. Again, just me, having a carrot to chase is important, it makes you try harder and learn faster. Once again, I want both classes to succeed. I want to see more drivers come off the track with the honest smiles you guys had. Thank you to those who spoke up. It's nice to see some others share my opinons.
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Post by David Chong on Mar 24, 2009 20:02:56 GMT -8
You're first class, Mike. Cheers to you. When I mentioned our class finish order, I wasn't saying you were unbeatable, only illustrating how the field ran. My comments above were not directed at you, but at folks who aren't even at the track this season that are making bold statements about what we should do, or worse yet what we should be forced to do.
Stepping "down" to Superbox is not all smiles and dancing. For me personally, I had a ton of fun running with you in one of the heats, and for a few laps at least in the Main. There is a little bit of sacrifice for me in giving up the opportunity to try and chase you down this year.
I am willing to make that sacrifice so that I can "do what I do" attracting more new drivers to the SDKA. The more people we get, the more participation we will see in all classes, and that includes Formula Y. I have a vision and plan for doing that, and by sticking to it we have enjoyed results that even the nay-sayers cannot deny.
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Post by mikecampbell on Mar 28, 2009 21:47:53 GMT -8
David, I'm curious if any of you have tried the dry clutch yet and if you have a preference so far?
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